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Tobias K.
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Posted by: Simon Williams (GB) on 12.12.2019 18:50:08 (UTC)
Here is a list of things that can create variations in VRC Pro racing that effectively give you an 'unfair' advantage over the others:
Variations in eyesight
Variations in concentration
Better PC's / graphic cards / monitors
Variations in hand eye co-ordination
Reaction speed
Better computer skills
Car setup skills
More racer experience
More practice
Controller quality, sticks or wheel
USB adapter (I reckon a very small effect)
Very few things are equal in the racing world, we just have to live with it.
All the above add up to way more performance variation than the issue of Rostrum v Freeview.
The only fair race is when you race yourself, this guarantees you have the same equipment and everything.
I.e. beating your own personal best is the only fair game. Many a day I can’t even do that :0)
However, practicing 'Events' against real drivers is one of the best parts of VRC Pro.
And you get to chose who you race against.
The A, B C finals allow you to race with people closer to your own level just as it is in the real world, this provides a decent competition no matter what the other drivers have up their sleeves.
I've often had more fun in the B and C finals than I've had in the A final. (A finals are tough, hence, all A finalists should be given credit.)
Here is a reaction tester to run on your PC. ( I find the ones on a mobile phone are not so accurate.)
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/java/redgreen.html
The best I can do is 0.247
I'd like to know what others can get?
Practicing this has improved my starts.
Edited by author: 12.12.2019 18:52:48 GMT
I just tried the reaction timer, was impressed to see my speed after all. I ended up with an average scoore of 0.2378 with the quickest at 0.215.
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Simon Williams
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Here is a list of things that can create variations in VRC Pro racing that effectively give you an 'unfair' advantage over the others:
Variations in eyesight
Variations in concentration
Better PC's / graphic cards / monitors
Variations in hand eye co-ordination
Reaction speed
Better computer skills
Car setup skills
More racer experience
More practice
Controller quality, sticks or wheel
USB adapter (I reckon a very small effect)
Very few things are equal in the racing world, we just have to live with it.
All the above add up to way more performance variation than the issue of Rostrum v Freeview.
The only fair race is when you race yourself, this guarantees you have the same equipment and everything.
I.e. beating your own personal best is the only fair game. Many a day I can’t even do that :0)
However, practicing 'Events' against real drivers is one of the best parts of VRC Pro.
And you get to chose who you race against.
The A, B C finals allow you to race with people closer to your own level just as it is in the real world, this provides a decent competition no matter what the other drivers have up their sleeves.
I've often had more fun in the B and C finals than I've had in the A final. (A finals are tough, hence, all A finalists should be given credit.)
Here is a reaction tester to run on your PC. ( I find the ones on a mobile phone are not so accurate.)
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/java/redgreen.html
The best I can do is 0.247
I'd like to know what others can get?
Practicing this has improved my starts.
Edited by author: 12.12.2019 18:52:48 GMT
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Justin C
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Posted by: Clayton Petree (US) on 10.12.2019 19:51:31 (UTC)
Posted by: Pieter Bervoets (NL) on 10.12.2019 14:22:05 (UTC)
We had this discussion several years ago too. It was seen as fair to do the 1 class only for the Modified Worlds, as this is the ultimate racing class in VRC and deserves the best to be the World Champion.
Ofcourse you can have different thoughts about it, but this is what we decided, somehow this was just not implemented this way last year and I forgot about it. Good I was reminded of it... (at 70+ these things can happen, so pls. continue to look over my shoulder 
Any chance of rostrum view only for all classes?
AGREED
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Clayton P
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Posted by: Simon Williams (GB) on 10.12.2019 23:22:19 (UTC)
Any chance of rostrum view only for all classes?[/b][/quote]
Freeview v Rostrum is another long running discussion (thorn in the side).
The simple bottom line is that if you run 'Rostrum only' events on certain tracks then only half the racers will turn up.
The other half come from a gaming world where 'first person' driving is the norm.
The ideal solution would be to have 2 Modified World Championships: 1 for Freeview and 1 for Rostrum.
This would keep the 2 disciplines separate and for the first time allow direct comparisons of one method v the other.
You might be amazed to find that Freeview is not always faster than Rostrum on some tracks.
In order to see these results first hand I think this should be tried for next year (only for modified at first).
(Downside being more work for Pieter and adjusting the hall of fame).
Once we have the results that will help with future decisions, (plus, by doubling the number of events it gives more chances to win something.)
Also bear in mind if you get beaten by a freeview player or by e.g. Joshua Berman, what difference does it make?
It’s just like having more Joshua Berman's to compete with, we all accept that some drivers are faster than others and there is nothing we can do about it.
All we can do is set the fastest time we can, and be happy with that.
Best to avoid playing a 'blame game' (other than electronic/ hardware / software faults and noises / distractions where you live (postman rings in the middle of a run! :0)
In most 'track racing' you will see various incarnations of the 'T-bone', AKA 'racing incident' = good for most spectators but for VRC Pro drivers, no pain at all.
That's why IMHO VRC Pro is one of the best places to go racing bar none.
[/b][/quote]
I don’t care sooooo much but we have lost plenty of good RC racers who were quite offended that follow view is allowed in an RC simulation.
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Simon Williams
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[/quote]
Any chance of rostrum view only for all classes?[/b][/quote]
Freeview v Rostrum is another long running discussion (thorn in the side).
The simple bottom line is that if you run 'Rostrum only' events on certain tracks then only half the racers will turn up.
The other half come from a gaming world where 'first person' driving is the norm.
The ideal solution would be to have 2 Modified World Championships: 1 for Freeview and 1 for Rostrum.
This would keep the 2 disciplines separate and for the first time allow direct comparisons of one method v the other.
You might be amazed to find that Freeview is not always faster than Rostrum on some tracks.
In order to see these results first hand I think this should be tried for next year (only for modified at first).
(Downside being more work for Pieter and adjusting the hall of fame).
Once we have the results that will help with future decisions, (plus, by doubling the number of events it gives more chances to win something.)
Also bear in mind if you get beaten by a freeview player or by e.g. Joshua Berman, what difference does it make?
It’s just like having more Joshua Berman's to compete with, we all accept that some drivers are faster than others and there is nothing we can do about it.
All we can do is set the fastest time we can, and be happy with that.
Best to avoid playing a 'blame game' (other than electronic/ hardware / software faults and noises / distractions where you live (postman rings in the middle of a run! :0)
In most 'track racing' you will see various incarnations of the 'T-bone', AKA 'racing incident' = good for most spectators but for VRC Pro drivers, no pain at all.
That's why IMHO VRC Pro is one of the best places to go racing bar none.
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Clayton P
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Posted by: Pieter Bervoets (NL) on 10.12.2019 14:22:05 (UTC)
We had this discussion several years ago too. It was seen as fair to do the 1 class only for the Modified Worlds, as this is the ultimate racing class in VRC and deserves the best to be the World Champion.
Ofcourse you can have different thoughts about it, but this is what we decided, somehow this was just not implemented this way last year and I forgot about it. Good I was reminded of it... (at 70+ these things can happen, so pls. continue to look over my shoulder
Any chance of rostrum view only for all classes?
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Pieter BFounder
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We had this discussion several years ago too. It was seen as fair to do the 1 class only for the Modified Worlds, as this is the ultimate racing class in VRC and deserves the best to be the World Champion.
Ofcourse you can have different thoughts about it, but this is what we decided, somehow this was just not implemented this way last year and I forgot about it. Good I was reminded of it... (at 70+ these things can happen, so pls. continue to look over my shoulder
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Antoine R
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Posted by: Simon Williams (GB) on 10.12.2019 4:40:56 (UTC)
Pros and cons of the removal of 'classes' from the VRC Pro Modified World Championships 2019.
I believe the main reason supporting this change is because we sometimes see 'Club' drivers with results that would put them in the Pro A Main.
I.e. they should not be in the club class.
If VRC Pro run the 'Modified' championships with A, B, C format, and the 'Spec' championship remains split by class this is a good compromise.
Even with 'classes' most of us look at the 'ALL' listing to see where we really are, hence, the existing system with classes is not a big problem for most of us.
I agree in the 'series' events numbers are a bit low in modified but you can still see where everyone is race by race, losing the classes would remove incentive for the lower level drivers.
When 'classes' are removed in the modified World Championship, only the top 3 get any recognition.
I.e. from 4th place downwards nothing is seen in the hall of fame.
When 'classes' are used it's possible to be 14th overall and 1st in the 'Club' A Main, and this gets you a Club World Championship and a place in the hall of fame!
To fix both problems mentioned above:
Please list all the 'modified' A finalities in the 'hall of fame' and the winner of the B final, C final etc. thus giving everyone something to go for.
This is common practice in the R/C real world.
For the Spec World Championship to help remove 'experienced drivers' from the Club class, we need to enforce a rule:
E.g. if a driver has 'any' car in the Pro class, they can only compete in Sport or Pro classes.
Club drivers who know they can make the A final should voluntarily re-classify themselves as Pro and if the above change was done they would get into the 'hall of fame' for being in the A final.
Really liked your post, sounds like a good compomise. Keeps goals and training for each heat for Worlds modified.
For season and spec, I see club and sport like moto 3 and moto 2 in the moto GP circus.
This give a chance to beginners to progress and not give up VRC, keeps a good base of racers.
You don't want to race betwen 3 pros in 2 years cause you made give up most of other racers.
Edited by author: 10.12.2019 14:03:50 GMT
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Clayton P
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I'm all for this in the modified class. I have worked very hard this last year, knowing that I will be bumped up to pro in some or all of the classes, and probably never make an A-main again and that's fine. I do feel a little robbed of the opportunity I've been working so hard on to earn a podium at the "worlds".
HOWEVER, there do seem to be way too many sandbaggers who come in and kind of wreck the middle level turning in pro level times. Racing one less race than necessary to finish out a full season, etc. Also, apparently, there are people not racing in "RC view" or rostrum view in the non modified classes (mod doesn't allow it) and that's pretty lame too. I will probably stop racing spec class because of that.
You might consider having some sort of beginner worlds to entice people to try them out because there's a steep learning curve to this simulator and you want to grow the user base.
Other than my complaint that this should have been announced around now for the change to happen in 2020 because it wrecks my year long effort to perhaps earn a podium in the middle "SPORT" class, I think this is a good change.
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Simon Williams
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Pros and cons of the removal of 'classes' from the VRC Pro Modified World Championships 2019.
I believe the main reason supporting this change is because we sometimes see 'Club' drivers with results that would put them in the Pro A Main.
I.e. they should not be in the club class.
If VRC Pro run the 'Modified' championships with A, B, C format, and the 'Spec' championship remains split by class this is a good compromise.
Even with 'classes' most of us look at the 'ALL' listing to see where we really are, hence, the existing system with classes is not a big problem for most of us.
I agree in the 'series' events numbers are a bit low in modified but you can still see where everyone is race by race, losing the classes would remove incentive for the lower level drivers.
When 'classes' are removed in the modified World Championship, only the top 3 get any recognition.
I.e. from 4th place downwards nothing is seen in the hall of fame.
When 'classes' are used it's possible to be 14th overall and 1st in the 'Club' A Main, and this gets you a Club World Championship and a place in the hall of fame!
To fix both problems mentioned above:
Please list all the 'modified' A finalities in the 'hall of fame' and the winner of the B final, C final etc. thus giving everyone something to go for.
This is common practice in the R/C real world.
For the Spec World Championship to help remove 'experienced drivers' from the Club class, we need to enforce a rule:
E.g. if a driver has 'any' car in the Pro class, they can only compete in Sport or Pro classes.
Club drivers who know they can make the A final should voluntarily re-classify themselves as Pro and if the above change was done they would get into the 'hall of fame' for being in the A final.
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